serious

AV

Apparently it's not just me that finds the Yes campaign shittier than I'm happy supporting.
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I dunno, it's not great but I find the scare tactics of the No vote ("this baby will die because the money to save it is going to AV!^^£$£!!") more disgusting.
Yeah, that video was a bit off. Campaign or not, though, I think instant runoff stands on its own merits.
Hmm... if that video is enough to put you off voting I guess your options are eyes shut or not voting.
I think my friend Katie summed it up best when she was complaining that the only positive campaign she'd seen had been from UKIP.

The tactics on both sides are appalling - including David Cameron's frankly insulting 'thinkpiece' (massive free NO ad) in the Evening Standard.

The problem is that voting systems are seen, rightly or wrongly, as a dry intellectual issue, and most political campaigners seem to believe that even relatively simple statistics would be totally lost on 'the man in the street'. So the tactic is to look for an emotional 'in'.
The problem is that voting systems are seen, rightly or wrongly, as a dry intellectual issue,


It's an intellectual issue, but not a dry one -- it's vitally important. The voting system determines who gets elected, which in turn determines all the other systems, so it's one system to rule them all.

political campaigners seem to believe that even relatively simple statistics would be totally lost on 'the man in the street'. So the tactic is to look for an emotional 'in'.


Indeed. I do think both campaigns are targetted at people who're too lazy to think. Maybe they're underestimating the British people. Or maybe not.
Ah, the UK is actually debating and having a vote on alternative voting systems. About time. I have really enjoyed NZ's MMP system. Although it can be frustrating when the main party gets hijacked by some silly one issue independent or small party, or won't work with who you want them to. But it all brings more colour and variety into parliament... well, it did. Not sure what's happened just now... it's all got a little dull again. We've lost our trans-gender MP, our Rasta MP and our fun crazy. Back to the sad gits just now. But hey, you get patches like that.

I wish you all the best, I hope the UK takes a risk for change. It involves working together more, but it also reflects the country more. Just don't have elections every few years like the US, sheesh, never get anything really done, they really are fat cats doing nowt.
The Yes campaign portrays MPs as lazy; the No campaign portrays the entire electorate as idiots. Yes it's a cheap shop, though I feel it's fair game - and helps convey the image of FPTP being the system that the politicians want to keep. IIRC, the MPs in the advert all wore "No" stickers on them? Okay, of course just because someone supports the No campaign doesn't mean they're a lazy MP, but it doesn't mean Labout Yes campaigners are handing leaflets that insult themselves (they might criticise other MPs - but then that's every political leaflet I've ever seen).

Whilst there are some inaccurate claims being made by Yes To Fairer votes, I don't see why they are the first ones to get coverage from the BBC on this issue, what with all the lies, hypocrisy and scaremongering being pumped out by No2AV... all I've seen from that is the very neutral "No campaign say it will cost £250 million ... Yes campaign say it won't" etc.

I'm also more concerned about the inaccuracy rather than feeling sorry for some MPs - yes, it's a fair point that it's wrong to link FPTP to things like the expenses stuff, but I'm less bothered about it being insulting to MPs. Or at least, it seemed no different to the standard mockery we get in elections, or any other kind of criticism given by others, be it the media, satire, etc.

Don't get me wrong, I think the Yes campaign could be improved - more emphasis on explaining that AV means you get to rate your preferences; they could have shouted a bit louder how it's basically what the parties use for their leadership elections, and mentioned that David Cameron would have lost under FPTP...

In terms of endorsing a campaign - my own view is that even if I didn't vote, if No ends up winning, it will still be an endorsement of their campaign, even if I personally didn't help vote towards it. Which (aside from the fact that I'd prefer AV independent of any campaigns) means I even more want to vote Yes, as even though I don't like everything about the Yes campaign, I still hate No's tactics far more.
...another thought I had: I do like that we do have this self-criticism among Yes supporters. The particularly deceitful thing I think would be if Labour MPs were secretly funding a campaign that was mocking all MPs as lazy - I can see that being rather unfair, pushing an argument that they presumably don't believe in. But instead, they're saying the argument isn't fair, which itself is a good thing. I'd be a lot happier about the No campaign if a Tory No supporter stood up and said to Cameron's "It lets the loser win" talk etc, "Hang on a minute, that's not fair, that would make Cameron the loser in our leadership elections". Or similarly coming clean about referendum costs not being the costs of AV; or whether they plan to use voting machines. Maybe they have, and I just haven't seen it...

(I also wonder why Labour doesn't produce its own Yes material - or is it a funding issue, because it's only being supported by individual MPs, not as a party?)
It's a fair point that it's wrong to link FPTP to things like the expenses stuff


I disagree -- there's actual evidence that FPTP contributed to the expenses scandal.
I got severly pissed off by the "For God's sake say so." campaign, but in the end, I put "No religion" on its own merits, despite grumbling about it. I think this is much the same.
Did you? Why?

(Sort-of disclaimer: I used to work for the British Humanist Association and was there when the slogan was originally chosen, though the choice was not anything to do with me)